The Presbyterian Church (and many other Christian churches) have a doctrine that stresses "Grace" over "Works". At the risk of oversimplifying, the gist is that we get into Heaven based on God's Grace- through Jesus dying on the Cross- and not by any works that we do.
I often wonder if the stress on Grace to the utter ignoring of works leads some to discount works as just an afterthought or even as useless. Some people take the extreme and think that if they believe in Jesus that they don't need to worry about anything. Joel Osteen preaches that God wanted us to be happy and successful.
Yet I wonder if this builds complacency. As a relatively blessed person in the world- especially one born in America to a relatively well-off family, I have been given many things without working to get them. I can only conclude that these were gifts to me- and subsequently that I should do something to deserve them. In short, if I waste these gifts, it won't go over so well in the Afterlife.
That isn't based on any Biblical verse or church dogma- it is just a feeling I have. I figure that we are here for a purpose- and that purpose has to be a little more complicated than just to see who accepts Jesus or not as their savior. The concepts in that belief- in my opinion: unselfishness and humbleness- are probably the most important, but along with that I really think that we are also here to determine if you deserve what you started with. I'm not sure why or how- but I just know in my heart that if I don't use the gifts God has given me it won't be a good thing.
1) is our purpose here "only" to see if we accept Jesus?
2) what is the purpose of the Afterlife?
3) what will the Afterlife be composed of?
4) was Revelations just written in the style of the day?
5) what place do "works" have in faith?
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An additional idea to these statements is that to accept Jesus is to perform "works". Unfortunately, I just included the age-old question.....Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Can you believe in Jesus without works and can you perform works without Jesus?
ReplyDeleteI believe that to accept Jesus as your savior, is to accept his teachings. These teachings demand that we spread the word and do "works".
Of course, the real meaning of the afterlife (your reward for following Jesus) is a mystery and will be until I die. I heard a teacher in college state that there was no afterlife. The afterlife talked about in the bible relates to how people remember you. Peform good deeds and you were a blessed and loved person. Perform bad deeds and people would damn you every day of your mention.
I personally hope that the afterlife will include foot massages.
Afterlife? Maybe eternal life, that is my hope. Genesis tells us that God created us. Sin, disobediance to God, separated us from God and the result of sin is death. The purpose of life is to be with God eterally. What would you say if I asked you what was the purpose of death?
ReplyDeleteWe cannot earn eternal life, this is the gift of God, we can earn death. This is where grace comes in -- I do not get my just wages, but I do get something I have not, and cannot earn.
The book of James tell me that faith without works is dead. We do works because of the grace we have been given out of love and obedience to God.
What is eternal life with God going to be like? I don't know, but my hope is that it will be fun!
Eternal life? Is that in contrast with life on Earth? Why should we assume that "eternal life" is something we can understand- from our perspective it doesn't sound like anything we are familiar with.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but think from the perspective of someone who doesn't know God. "Genesis tells us"? Why should I believe "Genesis"?
"God created us"? And He created us with imperfect potential that ultimately separated us from Him"? What does being with God eternally mean? Why should I assume that is better than the alternative?
"What would you say if I asked you what was the purpose of death?" Maybe the same as life. Maybe they're connected. The purpose of death is to move on to the next phase of life. Which leads back to the original question- what is the meaning of it all? What is the purpose of the universe? Of all life? Of God? Or does it all just end with "eternal life"- we get there and it is over. Sounds a lot like being worm food- is there a difference? If we can't explain it- how can we be sure of it, or anything about it?
Grace sounds like a circular system. "I create an imperfect being and separate myself from him through his imperfection and then offer him a concept called "grace" whereby he can be re-connected with me." Okay- why? Why that "test"? And, if it is a test, why the different standards (some grow up in the "faith", others don't?)?
I like the concept of faith without works is dead. That concept seems to say that what we do here DOES matter- not just what we believe.
I am not sure it will be fun. Maybe it will be really hard- but less hard the more you accomplished towards some universal principles (unselfishness? loving your neighbor?). Maybe it will be really ironic- everything we valued on Earth will be worthless and everything that is worthless on Earth will be invaluable.
I'm not saying you are wrong- just wondering what principles and conceptual arguments we could present in order to logically present our faith to unbelievers. Using the Bible- if they don't believe the Bible- seems problematic to me. Surely we can present the concepts and they can stand on their own??
RC,
ReplyDeleteI just tried to answer the questions that you posed. Now, it seems that you really have a different question, "Does the Bible have any authority?" If you have no reason to believe Genesis, you should also question the existence of the idea of afterlife, and the whole grace vs. works debate. These are, after all, theological interpretations. I'll start a new threat of Biblical authority.
You're right- although I think they are tied together at some point.
ReplyDeleteI'd also add predistination. Is there free will? I'm not sure I understand what the Presbyterian belief on that is.